Yash Goel: Okay, this is Built for Cars, Banned for Bikes and I'm Yash Goel here.
Yash Goel: Last episode I argued with how people get around a campus and how that is decided by
Yash Goel: what got built long before any of them arrived.
Yash Goel: The problem with an argument like that is very hard to test.
Yash Goel: You can't take one person and put them in two different cities and watch what they do.
Yash Goel: Except a university does that constantly and calls it an exchange year.
Yash Goel: My guest today spent his last year here and came from a city in Italy.
Yash Goel: He's going to introduce himself and where he comes from.
Yash Goel: So if you would like to introduce your scenario, please.
Alessandro: Yeah, sure.
Alessandro: My name is Alessandro.
Alessandro: I come from Venice, Italy and I spent last year as an exchange student at UC San Diego.
Alessandro: And yeah, that's it for me.
Alessandro: I studied business econ over there and then right now I'm back home in Venice and I started
Alessandro: working.
Yash Goel: So if you could please tell the audience like which cities you've been in Italy and like,
Yash Goel: how do you like spend your day at UCSD and how you do you go about in terms of commuting,
Yash Goel: that'd be great.
Alessandro: Okay, sure.
Alessandro: So, well, okay.
Alessandro: I originally come from Venice, but I've been all around Italy and I kind of had the chance
Alessandro: to experience the various forms of micromobility in different Italian cities where we mostly,
Alessandro: mostly commute by, I would say by bus and by bike, not rented bikes, like your own bike usually.
Alessandro: And only, only recently they, the government started like, you know, introducing some rented
Alessandro: bikes, rented services.
Alessandro: And, you know, some people started using that.
Alessandro: I didn't personally use those rented bikes as a micromobility way of commuting until I came
Alessandro: to the US and at UCSD, I was constantly using Spin to mostly to commute to class.
Alessandro: But not only, not only for, I don't know, I was going out with friends in the city center
Alessandro: and I was using that.
Alessandro: I was, I really, really used a lot, a lot, the Spin subscript.
Alessandro: I also had a subscription and yeah, I used it every day, every single day.
Yash Goel: So, did you, the bikes that you mentioned in like Italy, did you like, hold them on a lease
Yash Goel: or did it, was it the same system as Spin or like, what are the differences that you observed
Yash Goel: over your past year?
Alessandro: I would say, no, it's, it's pretty much the same, the same system.
Alessandro: You, you can have a, you know, a subscription and then a pay as you go type of, of, of bill
Alessandro: on top of the subscription that you pay.
Alessandro: So it's, it's really similar.
Alessandro: Okay.
Yash Goel: So is there like any difference in terms of like infrastructure that you've noticed because
Yash Goel: given the fact that you're in this like unique spot where you spend like three years
Yash Goel: in a university in Italy and then like one year at UCSD, you also happen to have like a lot
Yash Goel: of understanding of the Italian universities for instance.
Yash Goel: or like, I believe you studied in a different country than Italy actually.
Yash Goel: So, um, if you'd like to introduce, uh, like wherever you did your education from that'd be
Yash Goel: very helpful for the viewers.
Alessandro: Yes, sure.
Alessandro: Um, so I did my, the first, actually the first two years of my bachelor, um, in, uh, France
Alessandro: near, near Paris.
Alessandro: The, the city is a small city called, um, um, and, um, and over there I didn't actually
Alessandro: see any, any rented bikes.
Alessandro: Uh, there, I guess there weren't there yet.
Alessandro: So it's a small city.
Alessandro: So probably in Paris, there were already those, those kinds of, of bikes of rented services.
Alessandro: Um, and then in fact spent my, my last and third year of, of my bachelor's degree at UCSD.
Yash Goel: Uh, what course were you pursuing during this, uh, entire three years?
Alessandro: Yeah, uh, the course was, uh, was economics actually like, uh, uh, political economics.
Alessandro: And, and, but then, you know, I sort of focused on, on, on business econ just for, for my exchange
Alessandro: here.
Yash Goel: Have you also like ever like, uh, owned a bike yourself other than the ones that you rented
Yash Goel: in Italy and the ones that you used as Spin in US?
Alessandro: Yes, I, I did own, uh, I did own several bikes, uh, well, both at home and, and during
Alessandro: my studies there, there in France, I, I actually bought, I guess, two or three, uh, two or three
Alessandro: bikes because you know, uh, the, the first two got stolen, uh, and, and, uh, I, I owned
Alessandro: my, my bikes, let's say in, uh, in France that, that for sure.
Alessandro: Um, instead in the US, I just used, uh, I just used rented bikes, maybe because of the,
Alessandro: the short period I was there.
Alessandro: I mean, it's not that short, but you know, like nine, just what?
Alessandro: Uh, three quarters.
Alessandro: Um, but no, no, I never bought my own bike in the US.
Yash Goel: Uh, it's funny that you mentioned like, um, theft has like the reason of buying like new
Yash Goel: bikes constantly because like, that was one of the thesis of our projects is like theft
Yash Goel: is like something that is like actively prohibiting like the, um, like the growth of the micromobility
Yash Goel: culture in the States that like every single time a bike gets stolen, like more and more
Yash Goel: people like get like, like really, um, uh, feel really like, um, out of this like whole
Yash Goel: situation that like, they don't really want to like, um, get into this like micromobility
Yash Goel: culture because they would spend like more eventually than they do like renting.
Yash Goel: And then like, they would also have to like engage with the charging infrastructure.
Yash Goel: So would you, would you say that like, this is the reason that you, that you tend to like
Yash Goel: rent more than own because you've experienced loss yourself?
Yash Goel: Like, is that one of the primary reasons like making you rent more lately or like?
Alessandro: I guess, I guess, yes.
Alessandro: And that's, that's a very good point.
Alessandro: Uh, when I think of, you know, owning my own, uh, let's say my, my electric bike or electric
Alessandro: scooter, which is a very, very like useful and, um, sort of very comfortable way to, to commute
Alessandro: around town for, for micromobility purposes.
Alessandro: I'm actually put off from, from doing that by, by the risk of, of theft.
Alessandro: Like in my place, like here in Italy, it's virtually impossible not to get, uh, your scooter
Alessandro: or bike stolen, uh, if you don't have a lock and if you don't park it in a very, very safe
Alessandro: area in certain, you know, uh, times of the day, uh, as for the, as for UCSD, well, I didn't
Alessandro: actually have the need, but, um, I guess talking to, talking to friends and hearing them, their
Alessandro: stories, uh, the, the risk of theft was, was, uh, let's say a concrete one.
Alessandro: And, uh, so I would have probably thought a lot before, uh, purchasing my, my own bike
Alessandro: or my, my own scooter, um, at UCSD.
Alessandro: If I, you know, if I've been to, to stay there for, for, uh, I don't know, a few years.
Yash Goel: So economics was like one of the major reasons, like renting for you felt cheaper, like over
Yash Goel: the course of like those nine months over the headache of like ownership.
Yash Goel: Okay.
Yash Goel: Uh, has charging played a role in like this whole scenario?
Yash Goel: Like, have you ever interacted with the charging infrastructure at UCSD or like, if you've
Yash Goel: like used, like your friends, like the unmotorized bikes, so to speak, like there's also like
Yash Goel: infrastructure there to like, uh, fill up gas in your bike tires.
Yash Goel: So have you ever interacted with those at UCSD or like any other like college campus in the
Yash Goel: state?
Yash Goel: And how would you rate your experience?
Yash Goel: And like, um, like if that has affected your like, um, view views towards like ownership
Yash Goel: of a micromobility device?
Alessandro: Well, so I, I, I didn't actually have, uh, uh, direct experience with the, the charging
Alessandro: infrastructure at UCSD.
Alessandro: Um, I just know of some friends.
Alessandro: I don't actually know if that's, that's allowed who, who charged their own vehicles at their
Alessandro: places on campus.
Alessandro: Uh, I don't know which plug, which plug they used, uh, frankly, um, but I guess it's, uh,
Alessandro: I guess it's an important, uh, an important factor to consider where you're, where and how,
Alessandro: and I don't know how expensive, uh, it's going to be to charge your, your vehicle once you already,
Alessandro: you know, uh, invested the money to purchase it.
Alessandro: And, uh, I guess, yes, I guess that's it for, for charging like, uh, yeah, for this topic,
Alessandro: I guess.
Yash Goel: Do you, what do you, what do you think is like the, uh, primary reason that like people charge
Yash Goel: in their like apartments over like some like specific, like dedicated charging spots?
Yash Goel: Like, have you ever seen a dedicated charging spot or like, it's like the lack of those like
Yash Goel: driving people to charge in their like spots or like, what would you think?
Yash Goel: Because I know that there are like, uh, parking spots on campus.
Yash Goel: So like, is there like, are there like no charging spots in those parking locations?
Yash Goel: Or like, what are those only meant for like the traditional bikes with like no motors whatsoever?
Yash Goel: Like, uh, if, if you know anything about that.
Alessandro: You know what?
Alessandro: I don't actually recall seeing, uh, one of those charging spots for, for like electric vehicles
Alessandro: specifically.
Alessandro: So maybe that's, that's a sign.
Alessandro: That's an indicator of, uh, sort of, uh, not the absence, but like the rarity or the scarcity
Alessandro: of, of these places, this, this, you know, this sort of charging infrastructure.
Alessandro: And to answer your question about why I think like people would, you know, uh, charge their,
Alessandro: their vehicles at home.
Alessandro: Um, I guess, yeah, for sure.
Alessandro: You know, the, the fact of, you know, the comfort and yes, convenience, uh, plays a big,
Alessandro: big role.
Alessandro: And, you know, if I were to own my own vehicle, it would be a huge, a huge, you know, pain during,
Alessandro: during my days, you know, um, taking, taking it upstairs and it's, they're usually very heavy.
Alessandro: And, uh, so that's, that's probably one of the reasons.
Yash Goel: I mean, looking from like my experience at UCSD I personally, uh, face the situation that
Yash Goel: you're talking about, I used to live in like one of those, like, um, short of like, like
Yash Goel: tall enough buildings that they do require you to take their Spin upstairs.
Yash Goel: Like if you like, not, not Spin, but like a personally owned, like micromobility scooter,
Yash Goel: but like, um, but like not tall enough that they, uh, warranted the need for like an elevator.
Yash Goel: So like, I did not have the elevator to like take the scooter upstairs with me easily
Yash Goel: and like charge it in my dorm, but like, uh, there was also no like charging infrastructure
Yash Goel: in those, like all of those, like, um, bike metal locker places where they have like those
Yash Goel: like Q rods coming out of the ground or like in a, in a like dedicated room.
Yash Goel: So like, that's why I was stuck with this like option of like renting a micromobility device
Yash Goel: rather than like having the option to like actually have the ownership.
Yash Goel: One of my suite mates at the time, like had like a removable battery bike.
Yash Goel: So he was able to get around with it.
Yash Goel: He just like dragged the battery upstairs with him, charged it and then like
Yash Goel: brought it back up.
Yash Goel: So he had like two of the batteries and rotation, but, um, I've personally felt the
Yash Goel: pinch that like there, there's not enough like charging infrastructure nearby for ownership
Yash Goel: to actually make sense.
Yash Goel: But like, um, if you were in one of those buildings, which are like you says you're
Yash Goel: always makes like the ones like, uh, equipped with elevators nowadays, like the hype at all,
Yash Goel: like 15 sorry buildings, for instance.
Yash Goel: So, um, uh, would you like, did you ever like consider like if you were in one of those
Yash Goel: buildings, were you in one of those buildings?
Yash Goel: Like, uh, or did your building not available?
Alessandro: No, no, no, no.
Alessandro: Actually I was in I-House.
Alessandro: So no tall buildings, but I know lots of friends that who lived in those sort of flats, uh, like
Alessandro: yeah, tall buildings.
Yash Goel: Have you ever heard about those?
Yash Goel: Like, um, like scooters that you take on a lease.
Yash Goel: So like on Spin, you usually have like, um, like a day long thing or like a pay, pay as
Yash Goel: you go thing.
Yash Goel: But like, there's also scooters that you can like own for like a month on a, on a rent basis
Yash Goel: or like, uh, like you can pay like $50 a month or like $60 a month.
Yash Goel: And then you just like keep it and like use as much as you want.
Yash Goel: Have you ever heard of those?
Alessandro: I didn't actually know of this option.
Alessandro: No.
Alessandro: Okay.
Yash Goel: Would if you, if you knew about that and then like the, because like, then you don't really
Yash Goel: have to pay the upfront amount for like the $600, like $700 scooter.
Yash Goel: Would it make it like more likely for you to like adopt?
Yash Goel: Because like we talked about how like economics of it, like did not make sense for you because
Yash Goel: you were on a short stay there.
Yash Goel: So like, uh, because like now if you talk about like $60 a month, that comes out to be
Yash Goel: like $2 per day.
Yash Goel: But if you take like Spin back and forth, you can easily accumulate like $4 to $5 of spend
Yash Goel: a day.
Yash Goel: So like the economics do shift in your behavior.
Yash Goel: So like, would that have made more sense for you and made you adopt micromobility a lot
Yash Goel: more than you did?
Yash Goel: Like not micromobility per se, but like it's like persistent, like, because, uh, if you
Yash Goel: do use that, like, um, like leasing option for a month, I also think like the, like the
Yash Goel: usage would have gone up a lot because then you don't really have any incremental cost of
Yash Goel: like using it all the time.
Yash Goel: So like, what are your views on this?
Alessandro: I would agree on the point that, uh, I would have used that, that leased vehicle way more
Alessandro: because, uh, uh, you know, I would have been concerned with it, with the incremental
Alessandro: costs, but, um, I would also, yes, I, I'd also like to, and to do, you know, to, to specify
Alessandro: that, um, I would have probably been careful, um, about which, which lease, lease option to
Alessandro: choose.
Alessandro: Uh, and I would have probably looked into the, the kind of purchasing terms to see if there's
Alessandro: any, I don't know, insurance costs to pay in case of theft or, uh, yeah, what, what happens
Alessandro: if my, my vehicle gets stolen and if I'm covered, if I have to pay for that, uh, if, if, if so
Alessandro: all the, all the purchasing conditions, I would have been very, very careful to choose that.
Alessandro: And I guess it's, it's sort of, that's a burden as well, you know, sort of decision making
Alessandro: fatigue, uh, among your, your lease and options.
Yash Goel: Because you get like this, like responsibility up front that like, you have to like manage
Yash Goel: every like thing around it.
Yash Goel: Like if it gets lost, like how do you like manage the extra expense or like, does it get
Yash Goel: charged to you?
Yash Goel: Like the full amount of scooter and like all of that.
Yash Goel: But like, if it's been like your ride-ins and your responsibility ends right there.
Alessandro: Yeah, exactly.
Alessandro: And then I, I, I also guess you, um, you know, there, there's lots of exchange students
Alessandro: on campus and cause, and I, I guess, and also in general international students, you have
Alessandro: to put, you know, uh, put yourself in the shoes of those students who already pay, um, a lot
Alessandro: just to be in the U S, uh, um, you know, health insurance, accommodation, uh, all the, you
Alessandro: know, living expenses, et cetera.
Alessandro: And, you know, you always try to, to, to cut and optimize costs and, and probably pick
Alessandro: the safest options.
Alessandro: So I guess I'm just saying there's a lot of, of, uh, of carefulness and consideration when
Alessandro: you have to make other purchasing, purchasing options or leasing options.
Yash Goel: So did you ever like, um, happen to use the bus often or like, because there's like a bus
Yash Goel: that takes you around UCSD and did using that like impact your usage of micromobility and
Yash Goel: like, actually, you know, I,
Alessandro: I totally hated taking the bus just because, okay, it's, I, I
Alessandro: remember it's, it was pretty, pretty frequent.
Alessandro: So that's a good, that's a bonus.
Alessandro: Uh, but just, you know, I, I was often in a, in a hurry and, you know, try, try to really
Alessandro: optimize time from one class to another, or, you know, uh, one commitment to another.
Alessandro: So there's no comparison, uh, between how, how convenient a scooter or a bike is compared
Alessandro: to, to a bus, which takes you, yeah, takes you to the stop and then, you know, and also
Alessandro: like it, it doesn't run every single time.
Alessandro: And also, I, I guess I, I can't remember the, the hours, uh, that, that buses run on campus,
Alessandro: but, um, I mean, you know, uh, you, you can always take a Spin even at 2am.
Alessandro: Uh, so yeah.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Yash Goel: So like, uh, I feel like with the, like all of those like community resources where you
Yash Goel: have like buses and like metros and all of that, I feel like the major drawback with those,
Yash Goel: um, is like the time constraint, as you said, like, um, like that of the UCSD like bus schedule,
Yash Goel: like it runs from 6am to like 10pm on weekdays and then it does not run on weekends at all.
Yash Goel: So like, um, so like, I, I believe like that is also like another major reason that like
Yash Goel: people need more micromobility adoption because those like public transports like do help.
Yash Goel: And I think like they're genuinely like the best option, like for, uh, in terms of like
Yash Goel: climate conservation, like if you have like electric buses on campus, but, but I definitely
Yash Goel: feel like for those like edge cases where you have to travel one mile and like the bus
Yash Goel: doesn't go there, like micromobility is the solution to that.
Yash Goel: And like, if you just use a car instead, you would have, you would like pollute the environment
Yash Goel: much more and like have like a lot more to like take on.
Yash Goel: Like, like if you rent an account, it would be like a hell of a lot more expensive.
Yash Goel: So like, uh, even in like, uh, even in terms of like finances, I feel like micromobility
Yash Goel: makes sense in those scenarios, but yeah.
Yash Goel: Um, so you mentioned that you owned a personal vehicle, like the personal micromobility device
Yash Goel: in Italy.
Yash Goel: Um, so did you ever like, uh, was there ever like a test licensing or like, did you ever
Yash Goel: like buy insurance for it?
Yash Goel: Did you ever like register it anywhere?
Yash Goel: Or did you just like, uh, get it from like a local shop and be done with it?
Yash Goel: Like what was the experience?
Alessandro: It's like the last option you mentioned.
Alessandro: I just got it from, from a local shop, no insurance, no, no license, licensing costs or whatever.
Alessandro: Um, uh, and I, I just, I just use it.
Alessandro: If it gets stolen, it's, it's my problem and no, nobody else's.
Alessandro: Um, and that's why I have a pretty, pretty, uh, robust lock to protect it.
Alessandro: And I, you know, I mostly use it, uh, on, on the weekends to, to go to the gym and my gym
Alessandro: is in a safe, in a safe neighborhood.
Alessandro: And especially at the times that I go to the gym, it's, it's way safer than at night.
Alessandro: So I have no problems, uh, about that, but I would, I would, I would carefully consider,
Alessandro: uh, you know, leaving my bike, uh, at night in the center of, uh, of, of my city, which
Alessandro: is by the way, just to, to be precise here, uh, I said, I'm from Venice.
Alessandro: Well, there's the, it's Mestre in Venice because, um, in Venice, you can't ride bikes.
Alessandro: It's just walking and, and water bus and that's it.
Alessandro: Uh, so I'm from Mestre in Venice.
Alessandro: There are cars, there are roads, uh, walking, et cetera, just, just to be, uh, clear and coherent
Alessandro: here.
Yash Goel: And that was, that was useful for like the audience of like base and like.
Alessandro: Yeah, especially because, you know, exactly.
Alessandro: I imagine people, maybe they, they visit Venice and say.
Alessandro: No, you can't ride bikes there.
Alessandro: What, what is even talking about?
Alessandro: Uh, that's why.
Yash Goel: So were there like any rules about how you can drive and that like people actually follow
Yash Goel: them?
Yash Goel: Was there any enforcement?
Yash Goel: Did anyone ever stop you?
Yash Goel: Like, this is like both in like, um, like us and then like, um, in Italy, like it doesn't
Yash Goel: really matter if you're like on a, I believe there's like no like difference between the
Yash Goel: rules for like electric bikes and like it rules for like, um, rules for like unmotorized
Yash Goel: bikes or like, are there any that you're aware of or like, how are they enforced?
Yash Goel: Like what's the situation?
Yash Goel: Like, uh,
Alessandro: well for, uh, I guess for electric bikes and scooters, um, I guess there are speed
Alessandro: limits, which I'm not aware of, like the, the exact speed limits.
Alessandro: Uh, I don't have one and I rarely use like, uh, here like electric vehicles for micromobility.
Alessandro: So I wouldn't know, um, as far as, uh, as far as like, you know, normal, regular bikes,
Alessandro: uh, uh, are concerned, um, there are, uh, there are, uh, there are, there are very few enforcements
Alessandro: like, uh, you know, people are supposed to, uh, wear helmets or they're supposed to, you
Alessandro: know, uh, just like, don't, don't go over a certain, a certain speed, but nobody really
Alessandro: respects those, those, those norms, those, those enforcements.
Alessandro: I, I, I admit, you know, uh, I, I'm guilty of, of the first one.
Alessandro: I never wear a helmet.
Alessandro: Nobody ever does it in Italy.
Alessandro: And it's very, very common that more than one people, uh, you know, rides on a bike, like,
Alessandro: you know, the, the rider and the one, um, the one behind him.
Alessandro: So behind them.
Alessandro: So, yeah.
Alessandro: And I also saw lots of people on Spins, you know, like a double, double riding.
Alessandro: Uh, so I guess it's, uh, it's pretty, pretty common that, that lots of enforcements are not
Alessandro: respected in, in, in practice.
Yash Goel: So the enforcement is like a universal problem, like based on like the two scenarios that we
Yash Goel: talked about then.
Yash Goel: I, I guess, I guess, uh, you know,
Yash Goel: did you ever come across like any signage that asked
Yash Goel: you to like slow down or like, I don't know, like wear helmets or.
Alessandro: Yes, yes, yes, I did.
Alessandro: Um, on campus, especially, I remember, um, you know, uh, it's like you, you should wear
Alessandro: a helmet that, that for sure you shouldn't ride in like more than, more than one person.
Alessandro: Um, that's, that's, yes, that's the two that, that I recall from my time at UCSD.
Yash Goel: So you mentioned that like people like double ride and that makes it probably like unsafe
Yash Goel: for like the pedestrians involved in this.
Yash Goel: Um, because like, I, I feel like there's like a, there's more of a chance that like the person
Yash Goel: crashes while doing that.
Yash Goel: I have personally seen like people on like skateboards, which is like another micromobility
Yash Goel: device, um, like carrying someone or like, um, riding, like double riding a skateboard.
Yash Goel: And I personally think like those lead to like more crashes than like, um, even like not having
Yash Goel: enough experience of riding.
Yash Goel: So like, what are your views on that?
Yash Goel: Is that like something that like people do because like, they don't really have like enough
Yash Goel: budget to like, uh, take, um, separate ones.
Yash Goel: Is it like fun?
Yash Goel: Is it like something that people enjoy with like their partners or is it just like something
Yash Goel: that people do even with friends or like, what's the ground reality?
Yash Goel: Like, um,
Alessandro: well, um, I guess there are both, you know, extrinsic factors like, you know, that,
Alessandro: I don't know, weather conditions that the floor is wet.
Alessandro: Um, and it happened to me once, you know, that the floor was wet and I lost control of
Alessandro: the vehicle and I slipped on the floor, uh, or other extrinsic factors might be, um, I don't
Alessandro: know, you know, uh, someone just, just, you know, uh, because sort of like runs you over
Alessandro: bumps, bumps against you and you have no control over that.
Alessandro: Uh, but I guess that it's very important that, um, it's very important to sort of like to,
Alessandro: to be an experienced driver, which is sort of paradoxical because you're supposed to gain
Alessandro: experience while driving.
Alessandro: Uh, but, um, it's like, it's like learning from your mistakes basically as opposed to like
Alessandro: If there's a chance, exactly.
Alessandro: If there's room for mistakes because you, you know, accidents can, I, I, I don't know if fatal,
Alessandro: but they can be very, very, very severe.
Alessandro: Um, it's important to be, to be good, at least good at driving.
Alessandro: Um, and, um, I, I also, I also think that one of, one of the reasons, uh, why, why people
Alessandro: often transgress rules is because yes, they're, they just take things lightly.
Alessandro: And I, I, again, I admit being guilty of that, you know, uh, I don't know.
Alessandro: I was with my, with my girlfriend over there and, you know, we always double ride.
Alessandro: Um, and just, just didn't care.
Alessandro: Nothing ever happened, uh, to us.
Alessandro: And it was just a very, very convenient way of, um, of moving from one place to another.
Alessandro: I don't know, uh, other, other observations from, from the field, I guess, uh, yeah, just
Alessandro: people often, often like to, to, to ride together.
Alessandro: I, I saw like, you know, the, um, I saw lots of times with, with friends, uh, using the,
Alessandro: the shared ride on Spin.
Alessandro: So that's, I guess, an enjoyable experience and like just to something to do, to do together.
Alessandro: And you can go maybe like faster than usual with your friends or just, uh, having a sort
Alessandro: of like race.
Alessandro: Uh, I guess this, this is just, just some thoughts.
Yash Goel: But like the shared ride is actually like, um, like separate, uh, Spins that you can choose.
Yash Goel: And like every single person like rides like one.
Alessandro: Yes, yes, exactly that.
Yash Goel: Uh, yeah.
Yash Goel: I just wanted to like make it clear.
Yash Goel: And like, uh, it's not the same thing as like two people riding one scooter.
Yash Goel: No, as which, which is what like people tend to do, but like there is another like hidden
Yash Goel: danger and like shared riding that, like, if like, as you mentioned, like people like
Yash Goel: try to like compete with each other.
Yash Goel: So like, um, like, yeah, like that might like make them like take like risky turns or like
Yash Goel: not slow down when there's like a decline because they want to like go faster to like beat, um,
Yash Goel: whoever it is that they're challenging.
Yash Goel: So like, I believe like that might like make it unsafe for everyone involved.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: So, um, so it's mostly about like romance and like people find it like romantic to like
Yash Goel: a double ride then.
Yash Goel: Is it, that's the good reason why people like double ride?
Alessandro: I mean, romance, uh, it's just like, I guess, you know, romance is, is, is a factor there,
Alessandro: I guess, uh, because, you know, if you have to, let's say, I don't know, go to the beach
Alessandro: or like go, go watch the sunset in some, some beautiful place, you might use the Spin to
Alessandro: and double ride.
Alessandro: That's it.
Yash Goel: So do you think like there should be like, um, micromobility devices that like accommodate
Yash Goel: two people?
Yash Goel: Because I have seen like bicycles that can like accommodate like two people and like make
Yash Goel: it like, like maybe potentially like safer for everyone involved because like, then you
Yash Goel: would have like proper space for like two people to even stand because like, if you ride
Yash Goel: on like a one person micromobility device, like it might be unsafe, like compared to
Yash Goel: the two person one, because like you would actually have space to like stand for both of you guys
Yash Goel: and like maybe like some sort of like safety device, if it's like a bike, you can also have
Yash Goel: like, uh, I don't know, like proper seats and all of that.
Yash Goel: So like, um, would like the, would you think like that concept would like be helpful?
Alessandro: I, I, I think it's a very good point and I actually haven't, uh, haven't ever thought
Alessandro: about it.
Alessandro: I guess if, uh, if like if some, you know, um, vehicles that are like specifically designed
Alessandro: for, for more than one person, like for two people were, were introduced, I would probably
Alessandro: choose that, uh, when, when double riding, you know, uh, it's, it's safer.
Alessandro: It's probably, you know, more, more comfortable to, to ride, um, to ride together.
Alessandro: And now that you let me think there, I, I remember when using the, the, the Spin scooters, uh,
Alessandro: at UCSD, I remember there were like mostly, yeah, two, two types, two types of scooters,
Alessandro: like, um, so I think two models and one was, uh, and they, they slightly differed in, in color.
Alessandro: There, there were two, two tones of two different tones of orange.
Alessandro: And I remember there were, um, like the, the darker orange ones were sort of more robust
Alessandro: and, um, sort of more, uh, more stable.
Alessandro: Um, and that's why I, I often, uh, I often pick them over, over the other, when I had
Alessandro: the, the chance, when there was availability.
Yash Goel: So, yeah, I've always seen like, um, I think other than like just the color, like, um, I
Yash Goel: saw like three different types of like, uh, handles and like, there were also like these
Yash Goel: like standing, like brakes or whatever you want to call them, like stands.
Yash Goel: They were like stands that like lifted up the entire, like front of the scooter and they
Yash Goel: were like stands that like had like a side, like took, um, like kickstand.
Yash Goel: And I believe like the, those are like, uh, like, like, like all of those, like different
Yash Goel: models are like different, um, experiences.
Yash Goel: Some of them, like, just like some of them had this like, um, thing where they like just
Yash Goel: stopped abruptly sometimes and like, or like deaccelerated.
Yash Goel: So I believe like that also like contributed to me, like getting this like unexpected, like
Yash Goel: joke sometimes where I was just like, um, even though like, because when I'm controlling
Yash Goel: something with my own hands, I I'm like sort of like, um, predicting the next move or
Yash Goel: like the next, uh, like where I'm going to be in like one second from now.
Yash Goel: But if that, but if it like speeds up or like, um, like stops, like all of a sudden,
Yash Goel: like it, I might get into an accident, like because of that.
Yash Goel: And instead of like, uh, it being a safety feature, because like, let's say if I like
Yash Goel: I'm crossing a car and like it stops all of a sudden, like the car might actually like
Yash Goel: crash onto me instead of like that being as a, like, uh, that being the safety feature,
Yash Goel: like something that like saves me in that scenario.
Yash Goel: So, um, I don't know if you've ever experienced that, but like that has been my experience personally.
Yash Goel: Like sometimes like when you go to the library work, they just like stop at this like sudden
Yash Goel: joke instead of like a gentle deacceleration.
Yash Goel: And I think that also like sort of makes things unsafe for like the pedestrians and like even
Yash Goel: the micromobility rider himself.
Alessandro: You know, I, I couldn't agree more and I, I absolutely feel the same about it.
Alessandro: Uh, I, I guess, uh, I'm, I'm not sure about this, but, um, I guess there are, you know,
Alessandro: certain, certain areas that are sort of like, uh, mapped on, onto the sort of like Spin map.
Alessandro: I don't know.
Alessandro: And there, um, over those, those, in those areas, there are certain speed limits.
Alessandro: Library Walk is one of them.
Alessandro: And, um, and I actually think it's, it's, it's pretty dangerous when you're, you know,
Alessandro: riding, riding faster.
Alessandro: And then you immediately like, uh, you, you get, you get abruptly stopped by, by the vehicle
Alessandro: or, uh, and you slow down abruptly.
Alessandro: And, but even more dangerous is the opposite when you're going slower and then you don't
Alessandro: know when you're going to accelerate, because you're, you're constantly, you know, um, pushing
Alessandro: the, the, the envelope, the, the accelerator.
Alessandro: And, uh, and then you, you, you abruptly accelerate and that, you know, that was about
Alessandro: to, to make me, make me fall several times, actually, like, I guess almost all the times
Alessandro: that that happened.
Alessandro: So yeah, a safety measure that turns out to be, uh, potentially unsafe, I would say.
Yash Goel: Actually, um, now that you mentioned that, I think UCSD has banned micromobility devices,
Yash Goel: or like any like motor vehicles on the library to walk from like eight to five every single
Yash Goel: weekday.
Yash Goel: Were you like aware of that?
Yash Goel: Or like, um, is that a rule that you've never heard of?
Alessandro: No, I actually wasn't aware of that.
Alessandro: And, uh, I can say I trust transgressed this, this rule, um, lots of times, but for, for lack
Alessandro: of awareness, I, I, I don't know where, where is written, uh, just out of curiosity.
Yash Goel: I'll let you know about the resources after the podcast, but like, um, but like, if you
Yash Goel: were aware of this, like, would you still like do it anyway?
Yash Goel: Like, like being completely honest with yourself?
Yash Goel: Like,
Alessandro: I would say out of, um, probably just out of necessity, I guess.
Alessandro: Uh, but otherwise I, you know, I, I, I, I, I can still remember like different ways to,
Alessandro: to avoid library walks.
Alessandro: So I would have probably taken those, even though they're a bit longer and more convoluted.
Yash Goel: So like, like you would like take it when you're, when you have like ample amount of
Yash Goel: time, like, uh, like just like reach classes, but like in emergencies, you would just like
Yash Goel: take the shortest path anyway.
Alessandro: I, I guess, yes.
Alessandro: In emergency, but also, you know, being an exchange student, I was constantly, I was constantly
Alessandro: sort of like, uh, uh, um, scared of, of breaking rules because you know, uh, the, the, I guess
Alessandro: they're, they're stricter in, in the U S than they are in, in Europe.
Alessandro: That's just a perception.
Alessandro: So I would have been, been, I would have used the, the other routes, I guess.
Yash Goel: Okay.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: Um, so do you think that there's like need, like, I don't know if you've noticed, but like
Yash Goel: on Library Walk, they do not have like any, like bike lanes necessarily.
Yash Goel: Like you can still like operate a bike, but do you have to like sort of like maneuver
Yash Goel: around like pedestrians and like, there's no like clear marked lanes.
Yash Goel: So like, what do you, what do you think about that?
Alessandro: I would say that a bike lane would be much needed over there.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: And it would be, would be very, very useful just to, you know, to avoid all, to avoid
Alessandro: all the people when it, when it's crowded and, um, to prevent accidents from happening.
Alessandro: So, yeah.
Yash Goel: So it would like solve like both of the problems.
Yash Goel: So like one stone, because like you would sort of have this like shortest path scenario,
Yash Goel: like, like where, where like you're short on time and you can just like take the shortest
Yash Goel: path because there's like proper bike lane infrastructure to begin with.
Yash Goel: And then like, you also don't have like actively make this conscious like decision of like
Yash Goel: picking, picking like a suboptimal path when you're like short on time and like think
Yash Goel: about like the implications of that.
Yash Goel: And like, if you ever like not follow the rules, would that like reduce the anxiety around
Yash Goel: it or like make the entire experience like more, um, like easy, easy?
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: Uh, I do think, I do think so.
Alessandro: I do think so.
Alessandro: Uh, I guess bike lane on, on Library Walk and, you know, the adjacent areas would be, uh,
Alessandro: would make it much easier and, and, and safer to, to ride over there.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: So, um, moving on to your previous experience and like, um, like when you were like coming
Yash Goel: over here, like what your perceptions were about the place and like how they actually turned
Yash Goel: out to be, I wanted to ask some questions about that.
Yash Goel: So like, um, let's say like you were like the new student over there.
Yash Goel: And like, what did you assume like before like landing in that flight, like the States,
Yash Goel: like what, like, what did you assume about like getting around the campus and what turned
Yash Goel: out to be like true?
Yash Goel: Like what was the difference between those two realities, the one that you have, like,
Yash Goel: like the reality and like the, like the perceived reality that you had in your head, like before
Yash Goel: landing in the States and like living that like university life.
Alessandro: Uh, I would say my expectations were, uh, were met in the sense that, um, I, I expected, um,
Alessandro: that, you know, there, there, there would be, uh, like a micromobility vehicles, like electric
Alessandro: scooters or bikes to move around campus.
Alessandro: And I also expected there would be a bus and I expected all those, those, you know, means of,
Alessandro: of commuting around campus to be, uh, actually to, yeah, to be, to be convenient and to be
Alessandro: efficient, uh, just because, you know, I, I, I got informed, um, about UCSD and there's,
Alessandro: there's plenty of resources about every single, um, area of, of student lives on, on the website.
Alessandro: So that was very, that was very useful to, uh, to craft, uh, and like to, to make myself an
Alessandro: idea of what I, I'd encounter.
Alessandro: Um, but maybe if I, if I, uh, if I hadn't been informed, I would have expected, um, I would
Alessandro: have expected probably like less availability of, of, uh, like, uh, of, of, of these micro
Alessandro: mobility solutions for students, just because, you know, um, I guess as Europeans would think
Alessandro: of, of, uh, America has, as, you know, very, very big places, very long distances that can
Alessandro: be covered only by, um, by owned vehicles, mostly by car.
Alessandro: And that actually didn't turn out to be true in the case of, of, of campus, you know, UCSD.
Yash Goel: So like campus, like a, like sort of like a mini city by itself where you can like.
Alessandro: Yeah, that's true.
Alessandro: That's true.
Alessandro: Where you can like actually have like more micromobility, like than like the city itself.
Yash Goel: Um, did you ever like try getting around the city using micromobility, like outside of
Yash Goel: the campus?
Alessandro: Uh, yes, yes, I did.
Alessandro: Uh, but I would say in order to get to, you know, uh, other, other places of, of, of San
Alessandro: Diego that are not La Jolla, it's, you know, it's just, just the running, riding the trolley
Alessandro: isn't the best, the best solution.
Alessandro: Like it doesn't, it doesn't get you everywhere.
Alessandro: It gets you to the, you know, to most places and it's pretty convenient for those places.
Alessandro: But I, um, often had, you know, the, the often had like, you know, I don't know, commitments
Alessandro: or, or events planned at places that were not, um, easily reachable through, through the
Alessandro: trolley.
Yash Goel: So, so, um, like as with like the rules surrounding all of this, like, did anyone tell you about
Yash Goel: those rules?
Yash Goel: Like, like, I know that you, you read a lot about like the infrastructure itself, like on
Yash Goel: the UCSD related basis, but like, were there like any like rules mentioned or like any,
Yash Goel: like no go zones or like any sort of like any other rules or like, did anyone else like
Yash Goel: inform you about like how you could get around campus, maybe in like some sort of orientation
Yash Goel: or any other like orientation email or like how, how, how were those like communications
Yash Goel: and are you, were you just like handed over like a link and like, you can just like go
Yash Goel: and find your way around campus or like whatever way or like, how was that experience?
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: Uh, you know, like all that, that information about commuting, commuting around campus was
Alessandro: given to us from the, um, I guess the international student office, uh, at UCSD.
Alessandro: So that was super, super useful.
Alessandro: Um, and yes, otherwise I, I, I, I probably would have only been able to, to, to read the website,
Alessandro: but yeah, we, we as sort of guides for transportation on campus given to us from the international
Alessandro: student office, like department.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: Okay.
Yash Goel: Were you like informed about them during your orientation as well?
Yash Goel: Was there an orientation to begin with?
Yash Goel: Cause I'm not aware of the procedure of elect transfers or exchange students.
Alessandro: Um, oh, well, let's say that time passed.
Alessandro: So, but no, no, no formal, formal orientation, uh, beyond the material, the like orientation
Alessandro: material we received.
Alessandro: No, no, no, no, like in-person orientation.
Alessandro: No.
Alessandro: Okay.
Yash Goel: That is usually the case for like first year students.
Yash Goel: So I just wanted to like know what the process is, but yeah.
Yash Goel: Um, is there anything that you found like confusing when like moving around campus?
Yash Goel: Like anything that you thought was like really confusing or like, um, like me personally,
Yash Goel: for, for instance, like I really found like that, like all of those, like Amazon lockers,
Yash Goel: like Amazon is like a big player and like, um, e-commerce and like all of that, that we, um,
Yash Goel: like readily used.
Yash Goel: So like, I honestly thought that like getting to all of those, like Amazon lockers was a
Yash Goel: hassle on like, for instance, like since we're like talking about like micromobility, like
Yash Goel: I definitely thought like that those like, uh, Spin stations weren't like strategically
Yash Goel: located to the, uh, near the location that you would want to like access the most.
Yash Goel: Like for instance, like there's a restaurant named like OVT, Ocean View Terrace Pizza.
Yash Goel: Like, like it's for like, it's mostly famous for like pizzas and like Italian stuff.
Yash Goel: But I, whenever I took the Spin to that area, I did not really have any like proper, um,
Yash Goel: Spin stations where I could park the scooter at.
Yash Goel: And I had to leave those in like awkward positions and then just like close the ride through the
Yash Goel: app or like contact the support team because there was like no strategically placed parking station.
Yash Goel: I know that there are like a lot of stations along that way, but like, I still feel like
Yash Goel: restaurants are some places where you genuinely like go again and again.
Yash Goel: And I feel like having those stations like close to those like, uh, public places, it's just like very, like a sensible solution to do this like entire problem of like Spin scooters, like lying around, especially since I've like talked to some like pedestrians and like this was a major complaint from them that they find like Spin scooters, like facing downwards or like just like, uh, across the street, like, and that like blocks the pedestrian pathway and puts them in the harm's way.
Yash Goel: By like forcing them to, like, like forcing them to take the road, for instance, like, and like
Yash Goel: get out of the pedestrian zone, like, and then go on the road and then like go up to the pedestrian
Yash Goel: zone again.
Yash Goel: So like, have you, have you ever faced any such thing or like, uh, what's been your experience?
Alessandro: I mean, I, I, I, I, well, OVT is a great example because, uh, there's, uh, there's no, like there's, I mean, yeah, there are several like, you know, parking spots near OVT, but not one actually, um, actually there.
Alessandro: So I guess there should be more in general, just, just, you know, to, to keep the, to keep the roads, uh, like, uh, tidy and without, without scooters, um, put, put every, like, you know, put in a kind of like not, not orderly manner.
Alessandro: Um, and also if there were more, um, more dedicated parking spots, I guess the, there, like the scooters would be parked, uh, parked better because there, there wouldn't be so much, you know, like, um, so, so many, many scooters parked in just, you know, just few parking spots.
Alessandro: So I, I guess things would be more, yeah, just tidier and more organized.
Yash Goel: Yeah, um, I don't know if you've noticed, but like, there's like two different types of like, uh, like bike lane infrastructure on campus.
Yash Goel: There's ones that are like, uh, where the bike lanes are actually like on the opposite sides, like, um, it's like the bike lanes are, um, like the road lanes for the, like the lanes for the cars are like sandwiched between the bike lanes.
Yash Goel: So the bike lanes are like on either side, like between the car lanes and the pedestrian lanes, like the sidewalk.
Yash Goel: And then there's like lanes that is like next to the Ridge Walk, which is like the, like the long strip that like runs along Rimac and like other places on campus.
Yash Goel: So like over there you have like, um, both of the bike, like going front and like back, like next to each other and like separated, uh, from the pedestrian walkway via like, like, I don't know, like, uh, divider or like any sort of like plantation.
Yash Goel: So like, uh, uh, what, what has your experience been with like, uh, either of those, like, and do you think like one is superior to the other or like, which one supports the need of the students better?
Alessandro: Like, okay, sure.
Alessandro: Hmm.
Alessandro: Okay.
Alessandro: Which I, and I guess, and the question is which one I'd, I'd, I'd prefer or.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: Which one, which, which one is like safer, like, which one do you think should be.
Alessandro: I guess, I guess the, the second one, probably, I guess the second one, uh, just, just because, you know, like you, uh, and also I can't remember how, how was the, the separator between the two lanes and then in the case, like, uh, being able to, to go both ways with, was it like, uh.
Yash Goel: There was no separator, which is like a white, white line on the road.
Yash Goel: Like there was a separator between the, both of those lanes and the, uh, like the pedestrian Ridge Walk.
Yash Goel: So there was like a divider, like a plantation that was like dividing those, but like between those two, like, um, back and forth lanes, there was like no divider.
Yash Goel: There was just like two green lanes next to each other.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Alessandro: Then, then, yes, I, I definitely, definitely think that the, the, the second option one with, you know, bike lanes on, on either side of the road, uh, are, is, is probably the safest just because you, yeah, you, you don't, yeah.
Alessandro: Um, you, you, you don't risk, um, having, like people going, going against you with, with their vehicles.
Alessandro: It's just like, it's just one direction.
Alessandro: Okay.
Yash Goel: But have you ever considered like how, um, if you're choosing that like path where you have like, um, where you have those like bike lane infrastructures, like next to the car lane infrastructure, like the car sort of like just like takes up the bike space as well at times.
Yash Goel: And you're like forced onto the pedestrian walkway.
Yash Goel: Like, has it ever been a problem for you?
Alessandro: Um, I guess, I guess, yeah.
Alessandro: Um, I actually recall, um, I, you know, like in several, on several occasions, I just, um, I just used maybe for, for, uh, short distances, the, the, like the, the pedestrian walk, uh, right.
Alessandro: So, um, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, and especially, you know, like the, the thing here is the, the, the short width of, of, of the bike lanes, um, that, that I guess is the main problem.
Alessandro: Um, and that's why cars risk just like running over you or like, just being very, very close to you riding.
Yash Goel: So now that you've like considered this scenario, like, would you think that the other option was actually safer where you had the micromobility lanes, like separated from everything else and like right next to each other, like back and forth?
Alessandro: Actually, yes, yes.
Alessandro: After, after consideration, yes, it's probably best to, I mean, it's probably better to, uh, have a sort of like, you know, bike, bike accident or just like, uh, then, or a bike collision, let's say, then, then a car collision with a car bike collision, I guess.
Yash Goel: Yeah, I think like people when like the same as the case with like authorities, like when they make decisions, like they might consider one argument and like totally disregard the other and like, um, make a decision that like sort of like favors one thing over the other.
Yash Goel: So like, yeah, that is a dilemma like that people usually face and like, yeah, in terms of like limited context and like limited like experience themselves because like the authorities usually do not use micromobility infrastructure on campus.
Yash Goel: Like it's usually like the students themselves and like, they don't really have that much of a say in like the infrastructure being built per se.
Yash Goel: So, yeah.
Yash Goel: Do you think like bridging that gap would be like better?
Yash Goel: Of course, we'd have like a feedback cycle.
Yash Goel: I guess.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Alessandro: I guess the feedback loop is, is a sensible, is a sensible thing or like sensible process to incorporate in policymaking decisions.
Alessandro: And not only in this case, like in the micromobility solutions and infrastructure case, but yeah, just like, um, people or users feedback is, is essential always to, to improve the quality.
Yash Goel: Um, moving on to the, like the last section of this, like podcast, like, um, I just wanted to ask you like a couple of like quick questions about like what you would do if you were in that situation or like what you would change basically.
Yash Goel: Um, so let's say if you, you had like one year at like UCSD, but if you had like four instead, like, would you have solved something about it?
Yash Goel: Would you have like, if you had the position, like if you were, if you were in a position of power or like, like student government, for instance, or like any other like, uh, position where you can like actually change the, like the fundamentals of micromobility on campus.
Yash Goel: Like what would you change and like, how do you think like that is justified?
Alessandro: Well, wait, that, that's tough question.
Alessandro: Um, but I guess I would, well, uh, of course, after, after budget considerations, I would probably, uh, I would probably introduce more, uh, like more bike lanes in specific spots.
Alessandro: Like, uh, uh, for example, like, you know, like Library Walk, um, and I justified with, you know, uh, the things we, we said, um, with, you know, the, the place being too crowded and actually, you know, vehicles like electric vehicles running anyway, like in, in, through, through Library Walk.
Alessandro: So, uh, I guess, uh, I guess a bike lane would be, would be much needed and justified, uh, for, for safety purposes and also convenience, uh, reasons.
Alessandro: Uh, then I would probably, I don't, I don't know if it's, it's, if it's already that, that, that frequent light, but I would probably increase the frequency of, of, uh, bus rides.
Alessandro: Um, and, uh, probably increase the, like the, the hours, the running hours, um, even though I, I, I, I guess, you know, like just the drivers must get paid and maybe paid even more for, for awkward times.
Alessandro: Like, you know, like, you know, 1, 2 a.m. Uh, so, and I, I justified with, um, with just like, you know, the, the, the, the need, need to, to, like, to move around campus.
Alessandro: Um, then other things, uh, I, I wouldn't actually know. That's, that's pretty much it.
Yash Goel: It's okay. It's okay. We can, like, uh, move over that. Um, so, um, given the fact that you've, like, spent, like, time in, like, both places, like, is there anything that you genuinely, like, find that's, like, missing from, like, the American infrastructure compared to, like, what you've, whatever you experienced in, like, uh, what, what country was it? Like, France? I, I believe?
Alessandro: France. Yeah, France.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Yash Goel: So, like, what, what is something that you found that was, like, missing and, like, present over there, but, like, missing over here, given that, like, Europe is actually, like, big on, like, um, posts and, like, like, public infrastructure and, like, I, I believe it's, uh, I don't know the micromobility situation, but I believe it's, like, it must be better than, like, what we have in America.
Alessandro: Well, uh, for, just, like, you know, for the micromobility, I wouldn't, I wouldn't agree that much. I think the situation is, looks, looks pretty good. Uh, I don't know if in America overall, but, like, and, uh, at least in, like, in San Diego, uh, it looks good in terms of, like, just micromobility, um, like, very short, short distances through, through, you know, rented bikes and, and scooters.
Alessandro: Um, I think it's, it's better than, than Italy or France. Uh, but, uh, I guess, yeah, public transportation is, um, the public transportation infrastructure is, it's just, um, better, there are more options, uh, and there are more routes as well.
Alessandro: Like, I, I don't know, for example, uh, I remember using the trolley, there were only, I guess, three, three, um, lines, like three, three line colors.
Alessandro: Um, whereas, like, I guess here in Europe in general, you, you would find way more routes, even to, um, like leading to less, less, uh, common places.
Alessandro: So, I would say more option and more availability and that's, uh, yeah, that's a constraining fact.
Alessandro: And, and even outside, outside of, uh, of the town, like you, there, yeah, there, there are way, way more routes to, to lots of places.
Yash Goel: So, do you think, like, having a better, like, improved, like, um, like the trolley network or, like, public mobility network or, like, the bus network basically, like, would also improve the, uh, like, the micromobility usage?
Yash Goel: Because, like, in a way, if you think about it, like, um, like, you can go to, like, the major spots using these, uh, like, public infrastructure options and then, like, do the last mile connectivity with, like, a micromobility device.
Yash Goel: For instance, like, you can come to UCSD, uh, on a bus and take your bike with you and then, like, use the bike to, like, get to your specific spot on campus.
Yash Goel: So, do you think, like, uh, improving the public infrastructure, infrastructure overall, like, would also help boost the micromobility adoption?
Alessandro: I would, I would, I would think so.
Alessandro: I would, I would, I would say so.
Alessandro: And, uh, I would say that, like, you know, the one reinforces the other, right?
Alessandro: Or, I mean, like, yeah, just public transportation usage, uh, reinforces micromobility usage.
Yash Goel: So, um, coming to the pedestrian bits, like, I, I believe you must have been a pedestrian at some point as well, right?
Yash Goel: Like, during your stay at campus.
Yash Goel: So, um, like, seeing at it from the other way around, like, do you think, like, this growing micromobility adoption, like, is actually, like, a threat to the pedestrians?
Yash Goel: Because, like, now you have, like, scooters entering onto people because, like, I personally had, like, two accidents with, like, like, when I stopped using scooters for, like, a couple of months, I, like, like, those, um, Spin riders actually ran into me.
Yash Goel: So, like, uh, do you think it's actually making the campus, like, unsafe for the pedestrians, which is, like, actually the majority as compared to the micromobility vehicles?
Alessandro: Yeah, I, I, I guess it's a, it's a real concern.
Alessandro: It's a real safety concern, um, to always have, you know, like, just micromobility vehicles running very close to, to pedestrians.
Alessandro: And as a pedestrian, I, you know, I, I actually often, or, you know, like, just sometimes at least I felt unsafe around, around scooters or, or, or, or, or bikes in general.
Alessandro: Um, so, uh, let's say the, the, the further I, I was, as a pedestrian, the, the further I was from, from any type of, of other vehicle, whether a car or, or, yeah, or scooters or bikes, uh, the safer I felt.
Yash Goel: Yeah.
Yash Goel: So, like, do you think, like, um, people should, like, ban these micromobility devices, like, near, near pedestrians or, like?
Alessandro: Well, um, I, I guess, yeah, I, I guess near, near pedestrians, they should be banned.
Alessandro: They should be banned.
Yash Goel: Do you think there should be, like, criminal charges for, like, um, riding a scooter in, like, pedestrian zones?
Yash Goel: Or, like, um, if you hit a person with a, uh, like, let's say, scooter or a bike, like, should there be, like, criminal proceedings or, like, would that help the situation?
Alessandro: I, I'd say it's a sensible, uh, it's a sensible thing to enforce, um, especially because, you know, uh, damage can be, can be, can be pretty severe and in general violations, you know, violations can lead to, to severe accidents.
Alessandro: So, I would say fines are, are, are totally, totally justified.
Yash Goel: So, like, fines more than, like, prison time or something like that?
Alessandro: Yeah, just, just fines, just fines, no, no prison time.
Yash Goel: Because I believe, like, if you, like, have, like, very strict enforcement, like, that would do the opposite and, like, drive down the micromobility adoption because, like, now.
Alessandro: Oh, yeah, definitely.
Alessandro: You're scared to, like, actually, right, because what if something happens and, like, no, all of a sudden, like, their entire life is, like, ripped upside down in a way, so, yeah.
Alessandro: Yeah, you know, your last wish as an international student is to, to find yourself in an American prison, I guess.
Yash Goel: Yeah, so, yeah.
Yash Goel: I believe, like, they deport you more than they put you in the prison, but, okay, yeah.
Alessandro: Yeah, it's probably true as well.
Alessandro: Yeah, and then you cannot continue your studies, so, yeah.
Yash Goel: Exactly.
Yash Goel: Have you ever thought about, like, accessibility reasons, like, like, how it's a danger to, like, accessibility because, like, a blind person cannot hear a scooter coming towards them?
Yash Goel: And, like, like, a pedestrian might, like, avoid them, but, like, if someone comes on, like, if someone is on, like, a wheelchair, like, a micromobility person could do a lot of harm to them.
Yash Goel: And they wouldn't be able to, like, see it or, like, whatever.
Alessandro: I, I actually, I've never thought about, about, about in this, this terms, like, under the, you know, accessibility perspective.
Alessandro: As far as I remember, something that really, really struck me when I was in the U.S., when I was at UCSD, was, like, the presence of, you know, like, kind of, like, accessibility lanes, which is not even a concept where I come from.
Alessandro: So, and I know they're, like, separate and they're far from, from bike lanes.
Alessandro: Like, they're, like, a whole, whole separate track.
Alessandro: So, um, I guess I've never thought about accessibility concerns, but, uh, I also think that, um, like, there are already some, some sort of, like, uh, solutions, like, separate solutions for, you know, bike lanes and, and, uh, accessibility lanes in the U.S.
Alessandro: Um, I don't know that, that I don't know how, how, like, uh, how widespread is the, the presence of accessibility.
Alessandro: So, you know, uh, um, I don't know, I'm in a wheelchair and, uh, I have to go to, to, to, to some place that it's not covered by accessibility lanes that, and in that case, yes, I would, I would, I would, I'd be concerned, uh, because, you know, uh, there's a, there's a lot of, like, uh, risky factors, um, represented by, by other vehicles potentially, you know, running in sort of like into me.
Yash Goel: So, um, let's say if you're, like, at this, in this, like, hypothetical scenario, like, and you're in a scooter, and then, like, um, and, like, a blind person comes, and, like, they'll just, like, sort of walk into the micromobility lane, so, like, technically, it is their fault, but, like, they're also, like, not, like, uh, they're, since they're, like, blind, so, like, they couldn't really see anything, and, like, you crash into them, so, like, uh, like, if you're, let's say if you're not, like, actually a pedestrian, but, like, um, like, you're the campus personnel,
Yash Goel: like, who do you think would be, like, responsible in such a case, and, like, how should, like, campus handle those, like, things, and, like, how?
Alessandro: Well, uh, you mean, like, only in the case that a vehicle hits a pedestrian, right?
Yash Goel: Yeah, but, like, the pedestrian is, like, blind, so, like, they couldn't really see anything.
Alessandro: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
Alessandro: Um, well, uh.
Yash Goel: Do you think it's still, like, the motorcyclist's fault, or, like, do you think it's, like, the.
Alessandro: Yeah, I, I, I, I would still think it's the, the, it's rider's fault.
Alessandro: Okay.
Alessandro: Uh, yeah, yeah, uh, you know, like, uh, uh, however unpredictable, uh, could be, like, I don't know, the, could, could have been the, the, the blind person's moves, uh, or the movement, you know, it's, it's a rider's fault, I would say.
Yash Goel: Yeah, so, whatever, like, the reason might be, like, you're still responsible for, like, stopping when, whenever something comes into your way, like, even if you're in the wrong place, like, yeah.
Yash Goel: Yeah, um, yeah, um, I would agree with that, like, I definitely feel, like, the rider would be at the, like, yeah, because the other person is, is at the mercy of the mobility user, so, like, you are the one with the bigger car, like, the same way if you, like, drive into, like, the car lane, like, the car is responsible to stop for you,
Yash Goel: and not just, like, hit into you, so, yeah, um, do you ever also feel, like, scared of, like, cars when using a Spin, like, uh, if the car would, like, hit you, they have, like, 80 airbags, you do not have any safety device, so, like, you're, like.
Alessandro: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess, um, I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't really, you know, uh, scared, uh, but just, just to, I, I, I always made sure, maybe unconsciously, to take the, the right precautions, and just to, like, to stay at a, like, uh, you know, uh, at a safe distance, even if that meant going sometimes on the, on the sidewalks, you know, the pedestrian sidewalks.
Yash Goel: Okay, um, yeah, that makes sense, um, so, anyways, like, wrapping up this entire thing, like, um, is there anything that you think we haven't, like, touched upon, or I should have, like, asked you, but I did not, like, uh, anything that you would want to, like, leave your remarks on, or, like, improve, or, like, anything that you would like to say?
Alessandro: I'd, I'd probably say, uh, just, like, you know, the, um, the use of non, like, non-rented, non-rented bikes, just, like, you know, like, um, I would say, and non, non-electric, non-rented bikes, so, your own bike, and that is non-electric.
Alessandro: Um, I would say that, uh, it's probably, it's probably a topic to, um, to tackle when, uh, you know, when it comes to, to micromobility on campus, just because it's just, like, like, walking.
Alessandro: It's just a very healthy way to, to commute, and I guess it's, uh, you know, if you're for sure that your bike is not, is not getting stolen, or, like, it's very unlikely that it gets stolen, uh, and you, you can also exercise while commuting.
Alessandro: So, I guess it's, uh, it's just, you know, a topic that I would have probably, you know, maybe talked, talked about more, but I, I, I think this interview was very, very comprehensive.
Yash Goel: Um, one thing that I actually wanted to bring up, like, now, now that we're, like, wrapping it up, is, like, um, like, when you walk, like, when you use, like, these, like, unmotorized, like, vehicles to, um, get to your class, like, do you also feel like they just, like, um, they just sort of, like, make you tired when you're, like, going there?
Yash Goel: So, like, um, like, they actually play, like, a negative effect on, like, like, like, because it's unmotorized, you do not have, like, any assistance, and by the time you go to the class, like, you're already, like, tired and, like, not really doing the class anymore.
Yash Goel: Because, like, you might be sleepy, you might be, like, exhausted because of that bike run, and, like, UCC does have, like, steep lines in some place, so that might also, like, play a role.
Yash Goel: So, like, how do you, like, tackle that?
Yash Goel: Like, how do you think, like, that affects the entire thing?
Alessandro: Yeah, I, I, I do think it's, you know, um, it's probably, um, it, it probably depends on, on the route that you have to take to get to the class.
Alessandro: And now that you let me think about it, um, I, I remember some very steep hills, um, uh, on, on campus that I would have much, much, much preferred to, and I actually, you know, I actually did use motorized vehicles, like, electric vehicles to, to run those.
Alessandro: So, I, I don't know if that makes you so exhausted that you can't follow a class.
Alessandro: I don't think so.
Alessandro: I actually think that, you know, as, as students, we, we just, like, we, we probably sit a lot.
Alessandro: And it's just a very good way to, you know, release the stress and get the, your heart, heart rate up during the day.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: Oh, but yes, it's probably not the best option when at night you're tired and after, maybe after class and you have to run the steep hill.
Yash Goel: Yeah, that makes sense.
Yash Goel: I personally did feel that way, but, um, I, I agree with, like, that, yeah, that might not be the case for, like, everyone.
Yash Goel: So, um, moving on to the last question, I just wanted to ask if there's, like, any, if there's, like, any resources.
Yash Goel: Um, that you came across that you found, found super helpful when, like, traversing across the campus or, like, moving from the campus to the city.
Yash Goel: Like, for instance, there's an app called, like, Pronto, where you get, like, free, um, bus passes, sort of, for UCSD students.
Yash Goel: And you can use that to, um, use any of the Pronto passes, like, like, any of the, like, MTSs, buses, or, like, the trolley, free.
Yash Goel: So, um, if there's, like, any resources that you come across or, like, anything that you would like to, like, um,
Yash Goel: that would help people out, like, whoever's listening to this.
Alessandro: Well, other than Pronto, which is a very valuable resource, um, I guess, well, I guess maybe just trying one of those, like,
Alessandro: I actually did it, like, in one of those promo, you know, promo code websites, like Coupert or something, uh, just to get promo codes for, for writing Spins, um, that actually turned out to be, to be pretty useful.
Alessandro: Yeah, they, I, I mean, not, not always, but, yeah, just, like, you know, a few times, yeah, they, they saved me, they saved me a couple bucks.
Alessandro: So, I was actually happy.
Alessandro: Uh, it's, it's Coupert, Coupert, it's like, it's a Chrome extension that allows you to, uh, like, um, yeah.
Yash Goel: What was the name of the site again?
Alessandro: C-O-U-B-R-T.
Yash Goel: Okay.
Yash Goel: Yeah, that was, um, is there anything else that you would like to share, like, any, like, other resource?
Alessandro: Uh, actually, no, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have anything to, to add more.
Alessandro: Sorry.
Yash Goel: Um, I think, I think, like, for, like, commuting across from the campus of the city, I think for, um, like, these trolley systems, you could also just use Google Maps because there's an option to, like, tap the trolley button and it'll decide the path for you.
Yash Goel: And you can use, like, the, uh, Pronto app to, like, just, like, take free rides if you're, like, a community member of, like, UCSD.
Yash Goel: Um, but, yeah, um, and there's also, I believe there's also, like, another app for, like, MTS where you can see the entire network of all of these trolleys and, like, buses.
Yash Goel: So, I believe that could be helpful.
Yash Goel: And then, like, on campus, I believe there's an app, um, that you can use to spot the bus's live location.
Yash Goel: Uh, I think it's called Transcript or Transcript or something.
Alessandro: I know, I actually, something like that, yeah.
Yash Goel: So, um, you can use these resources, I guess.
Yash Goel: Um, yeah.
Yash Goel: So, yeah, that was it for today's episode.
Yash Goel: Um, so, thank you, everyone, for tuning in and listening to this.
Yash Goel: That was Alessandro, who spent his entire last year as an exchange student in UCSD.
Yash Goel: Um, so, we just want to, like, leave it at this and come back for the next episode with another guest.
Yash Goel: Um, thank you so much.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: Thank you, Yash.
Alessandro: Thank you.
Alessandro: Yeah.
Alessandro: Thanks for listening.
Alessandro: Yeah.